====================================================================== PE-WJ-Diplo [Kalvis]: Re: Honor Date:Sun, 07 Oct 2007 07:10:51 +0000 To reply, log in at http://www.websofpower.com/?Page=Login or use your newspaper form. Direct email replies do not go to the sender. (This is intended to protect the privacy of other players.) ====================================================================== You are right, that it makes no sense to try to educate one about honor. So don't please stop it right here. I have been in this universe for a long time and can say for sure, that honor talk was always a tool to mask ones frustration. I must admit that reading your post made me angry and made me laugh at the same time. You see, I have never stated that I was not going to join SA - where do you get such info from? I believe it is just your wishful thinking... Further more, even my peace with ML was always conditional as from the very beginning I have made it clear, that I shall attack TI on sight and dare I say there is some bond between ML and TI. So just be a man to whatever end, though I know it is hard to be one on the losing side. Kalvis of Kaunieciai SA P.S. OTOH if moderator thinks that my actions are against the rules, then I shall resign immediately. ====================================================================== PE-WJ-Announce [Moderator]: Most Likely the Last Turn Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 18:12:40 +0000 Announcement from the Moderator to All Leaders: The SA alliance have maintained their dominance in the region counts. Unless the SA fail to meet the New Era conditions on or before the Turn 274 newspaper (the next one), a New Era will start! -- Webs of Power, http://www.websofpower.com/ P.S. If you are no longer playing, please use the Resign button in your newspaper to resign. After your resignation goes through, you will no longer receive these messages. ====================================================================== PE-WJ-Diplo [Acanthopis]: :-( Date:Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:50:08 +0000 To reply, log in at http://www.websofpower.com/?Page=Login or use your newspaper form. Direct email replies do not go to the sender. (This is intended to protect the privacy of other players.) ====================================================================== I was very sad to see that Ben was feeling like Kalvis joining our group was underhanded. The fact that there were other people who were thinking about resigning in protest indicates to me that many people have a bad taste in their mouths, and that's really too bad. This has been a spectacularly fun universe for me. That was true when we formed SA to keep the Professor's old alliance from winning, and they ended up kicking our butts, it was true when Porcupines rallied the world to rise up against them for a second try, it was true when Porcupine's alliance looked like they were going to be rolling in to a solid victory (before his two allies abandoned him), it was true when I felt like I was having twice as many region disasters as the rest of the world, and it was true when things started looking up for us. This world has always been exciting, has always been fluid, people have generally been very civil--even to enemies--and I have always enjoyed it. Hopefully people will remember how great a game this has been, and not just be unhappy about the end. However, before people start to say that we got Kalvis to join us for the easy win, I want to say a couple of things. First, as I said in my announcement, I think it's clear to everyone that Hermis and I were at the point where the end-game was decided. We have been pulling away for a few turns now, and don't need Kalvis to win. This last turn Hermis and I picked up 3 regions, while ML lost 7. The clock would stop soon with or without Kalvis. This is not to take away from Kalvis's value--we would never be where we are without him, and certainly if he wasn't fighting with us we would have a tougher time of it. But the die was cast. Kalvis joining us really changes nothing except who gets credit for the win. Also, I don't know what Kalvis said to people personally, but I certainly don't remember his ever saying that he would not re-join us. When he was killed, we all agreed that he may or may not re-join the alliance, but that nothing was decided. He was starting from scratch. I advertised for new members, but BP was the only one to even reply to my querries, and then only to say that maybe some large-scale alliance rearrangement might be in order (I don't think any of us realized that this would have been against the rules!). So, for any of you who think that this was planned all along, I can assure you that any one of you probably could have changed the outcome just by saying you were interested. So, please don't be mad at Kalvis or feel like things were done sneakily. The only thing sneaky that we did in my mind was we waited for a while to sign Hermis up even after it was clear that we had a very good relationship with him, but he's been official for so long that I don't think it changed too much in the end. Anyway, if you are mad at me or SA for how things went, then I am sorry for that. I hope that you see things from my perspective, but maybe I am rationalizing to myself. I do know that each of you played a great game and I tip my hat to all of you. I still can't figure out why I was never able to make progress against BoldlyGo in his second incarnation. And had it not been for Porcupines this world would have ended 150 turns ago. And so on. Nice work to you all! -- Acanthopis ====================================================================== PE-WJ-Diplo [Cartwright]: Snakes Date:Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:33:45 +0000 To reply, log in at http://www.websofpower.com/?Page=Login or use your newspaper form. Direct email replies do not go to the sender. (This is intended to protect the privacy of other players.) ====================================================================== I've realy got nothing against you Acanthopis. I think you're the kind of leader that everyone can respect. As I said before, the way you guys held Hermis back until the right time to make a push for the win was probably the right thing to do. I don't think it directly broke the rules and the best leaders know how to bend the rules to their advantage. I wish I had thought of that myself. My beef is more with Kalvis. We beat him. When he came back he made assurances, mostly to Bold Porcupines, that he was completely disassociated from SA and would not rejoin you. Because of that, we made a peace treaty with him and left him alone even though he told us that he would attack TI if he ran into any of them. We just figured we could feed them troops if they needed it and they would be able to deal with him. Heck, Kalvis even hinted that he might help stop SA from winning at one point when you guys were real close, probably just to appease us. I'm sure he'll deny all of this. Maybe he just has a really bad memory and it's not his fault he's a liar. What you say may be true that you and Hermis would have won in a little bit anyway, but I would have much rather played it out. I think we had a good chance to stall you guys for a while longer and we've always had hope that our superior mobility would eventually pay off as you guys were only getting 10 actions per turn while we were getting 20 plus. Kalvis joining you in the end just leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I know I'm not alone. Ben ====================================================================== PE-WJ-Diplo [MacBook Pro]: MacBook concedes Defeat! Date:Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:02:04 +0000 To reply, log in at http://www.websofpower.com/?Page=Login or use your newspaper form. Direct email replies do not go to the sender. (This is intended to protect the privacy of other players.) ====================================================================== MacBook officially concedes defeat to Hermis and Acanthopis. We wish to congratulate these two vaillant leaders for their brilliant victory, alone against the nearly united world, and their efficient strategy of an incremental enlargement of their alliance, the Secret Alliance. However MacBook does not give any credit at all to Kalvis, at the present time. We think it is fair to salute his fine military skills and great tactics, and for an hard fought war that has opposed us during the major time of this universe. For this reason we consider him as an opponent of value we would all prefer to have fighting at our sides. But we will remember him as the loyal leader that have fallen proudly on the battlefield on Turn 227, back in April. Thus, in our mind, his most recent incarnation and specifically joining his old mates last week for an eager taste of victory is nothing but pure decoration. In short MacBook concedes defeat solely to Hermis and Acanthopis, the true identity of the SA alliance. Nicely done, former enemies, and soon friends again. May our destiny make us meet again, MacBook ====================================================================== PE-WJ-Diplo [Hermis]: My opinion Date:Tue, 09 Oct 2007 07:51:49 +0000 To reply, log in at http://www.websofpower.com/?Page=Login or use your newspaper form. Direct email replies do not go to the sender. (This is intended to protect the privacy of other players.) ====================================================================== Let me say my opinion. Kalvis is honorable leader. In SA we are communicating much and I know that he never tells lies or break a treaty. So, Cartwrite, if you have facts that he lied, then please cite his messages. Your retells is worthless, as it is show what you understood or wanted to believe, but not what Kalvis has said. Professor restarted this game too. We also let him grow hoping that he will not attack us or even join us. We also could kill him in early state. But later he became bigger and joined our enemies' side. But our hope is not reason to name him a lier. Boldly, I feel bad taste in my mouth of your actions. I am sure that ChickenLittle and you are the same person. Do you remember how you broke our peace treaty and surprisingly attacked me? Then I announced that to the world, but nobody cared, it was convenient for TS and others. Apeloverage is a lier and that is for sure. Do you remember the story when he asked us to join our alliance? Acanthopis agreed to stop war with him. But then apeloverage attacked Acanthopis with huge farces. But it was ok for ML and TI. These were ML's friends and still are. Do you know in my country it is said "look at your friends and you will see who you are". So, and I am glad that my friend is Kalvis. PS. Acanthopis and Arizona too :) PPS. Thank you all for the most interesting game. Your Hermis ====================================================================== PE-WJ-Diplo [Kalvis]: Meta-post Date:Tue, 09 Oct 2007 08:29:36 +0000 To reply, log in at http://www.websofpower.com/?Page=Login or use your newspaper form. Direct email replies do not go to the sender. (This is intended to protect the privacy of other players.) ====================================================================== I think there is no point in arguing about what I have said and how I have managed my diplo. I think there is no point in asking you, Cartwright, to show any one of my messages that show that I was never going to join SA, that I was definitely going to attack them etc. I think there is no point in showing that while TI was not playing honorable by your own definition (but nothing against the rules), it did not leave the bad taste in your mouth just because it was convenient for you. There is no point in this meta-arguing... I would have understood your rants, if they could change the fact that SA is going to win the game next turn. You see, I would look at it as a nice diplo play, creating pressure etc. But what is the point of your talks now? You simply want to insult me personally and you know what, you have succeeded admirably... Having said all that I want to thank you all (yes, even OckerBoy :) ) for all the fun I had here all these years! I also congratulate Hermis and Acanthopis, my friends, on this epic victory! Kalvis the Exile ====================================================================== PE-WJ-Diplo [BoldlyGo]: Last Post Date:Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:54:06 +0000 To reply, log in at http://www.websofpower.com/?Page=Login or use your newspaper form. Direct email replies do not go to the sender. (This is intended to protect the privacy of other players.) ====================================================================== Congratulations to the victors and commiserations to my allies and myself. Its been a pleasure playing this universe. My thanks to Porky who kept us going far longer then I thought possible and my respect to Mr Acanthropis who has been the best opponent I have played against in many a year. If he looks carefully under the floor of my burnt out command post in Diop 19 he may find a somewhat battered snakeskin briefcase that I forgot in my hurry to leave some months ago. I never managed to recapture the bloody place. Ha! The vortex is opening so away I go to the universe of pop! ====================================================================== PE-WJ-Diplo [Acanthopis]: MOM!!!! Date:Tue, 09 Oct 2007 23:11:37 +0000 To reply, log in at http://www.websofpower.com/?Page=Login or use your newspaper form. Direct email replies do not go to the sender. (This is intended to protect the privacy of other players.) ====================================================================== MOM!!!!!!! Look--it's Mom!!!! Yay! I'm so happy!!! Can you hear me, Mom? No, I guess not, but it really is you! Ah......At least we can give you a proper burial. mom....... OK, well, we can call off those invasions guys, we got what we were after! ....guys? Hey, guys? ====================================================================== PE-WJ-Announce [Moderator]: The Wrath of Kalvis (New Era!) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 04:26:11 +0000 Announcement from the Moderator to All Leaders: ... and now I'm beginning to think maybe I *should* change the tagline on the game, from "Classic Games of Network Strategy and Diplomacy" to what I've been considering for a while: "The (Anti-) Social Network Strategy Game." ("Explore new places, meet new people, and fight them!") I'm also thinking that maybe our Universes shouldn't run for quite so long. A game with an ending is fun, but a game that lasts years gets to be too much like real life -- people get too wrapped up in it, and feelings can get hurt. And then there's the region crisis problem. (If we don't have region crises of some sort, the universe can only expand as new regions are added, and then everyone gets as big as Acanthopis and no one can decipher their maps anymore...) But with that said, remember: honor is only an opinion; power is real. Kalvis has held the balance of power ever since he restarted. Had he joined the TI or ML or R30, and fought the SA, the SA would (in my opinion) have eventually folded. But he had no friends in those alliances. And it's been increasingly clear for many turns that as long as Kalvis tied up apeloverage, Rstlne30 stayed on the sidelines, and nothing dramatic happened, the SA were going to grind their opponents down through sheer population pressure. Those who had their hearts set on making that process as long (and fun) as possible are justifiably upset that Kalvis mooted all their hard work, and did it so suddenly. But remember - this *is* a universe called Wilderness Justice! No laws in the wilderness. The end was inevitable and perhaps it is better this way. Now we can all start a new universe and have even more fun! Random Comment: Professor sent the second diplomatic message in this Universe. On November 4, 2004. Three years ago! My youngest child wasn't even born then, and now he walks and talks and doesn't even wear diapers anymore! I want to thank those of you who started back then and are still with us. That's quite an endorsement of this game, to play it for three years. Some of the names have changed but I know Howlett is still with us, and Sorceress, Professor, Acanthopis, and Hermeus, who were all there on Turn 1! I hope we can all take some time to share our past identities and true identities at this point. I've been giving some thought to the rules for the New Era to come. If we keep the unlimited private diplomacy, it is going to be a problem for me, because I'll be drawn into playing (especially at the start) and then it will take up much of my time sending messages and strategizing, and then I won't have enough time to make some much-needed improvements in the software. Also I think, after seeing the hurt feelings here at the end, that adding a little "social distance" could be a good thing for a while. So I propose that we have a game which is "announcements only", with the announcements delivered only with the newspapers. A limited-diplomacy game to be sure. But we will still have some alliance rules, and the public negotations will be quite interesting - almost "board game style" for those who remember sitting around a table playing with friends! I am thinking of the following rules for the new universe. Since we had WI (Web of Intrigue) and WJ (Wilderness Justice), the next in sequence is WK. I think I have to name it... Wrath of Kalvis! Webs of Power: The Wrath of Kalvis - Special Rules: It came to pass on Turn 274 of Wilderness Justice that Kalvis wreaked his wrath upon the world. Kalvis had been forced out of the Secret Alliance at the hands of the Mongoose League and an alliance unjustly known as The Incompetents. Returning to the world, he stood apart and grew stronger as the Secret Alliance ground their enemies downward. Surprising nearly everyone, who had thought he would remain neutral, he suddenly rejoined the Secret Alliance of Acanthopis and Hermis, who appeared close to victory already, and ensured the dominance of the SA. A long period of peace ensued, but centuries later, new Leaders emerged... 1) Single-Alliance Victory, 100 turn limit: This Universe will only be restarted through an Alliance Victory (no New-Era voting). See the Leader's Guide for the Alliance Victory rules. However, if there is no victorious alliance by Turn 100, the largest alliance (by regions) will be given due honors by default. 2) Maximum Alliance Size: Alliances must be declared publicly and must be at most 2 nations in size. 3) Permanent Alliances: Once a Nation becomes a member of an Alliance, that membership must be made public, and it is permanent. Nations who restart must remain part of their previous alliance. (Leaders who die, wait a few turns, and start over with a new identity are allowed to have their new identity.) Nations may not withdraw from an alliance unless the Alliance has only one member. 4) Moderator Super-Privilege: These rules will be enforced as interpreted by the Moderator, and may be modified by the Moderator at any time at the Moderator's discretion. If you have read this far - I am looking for more ideas for alliance rules. Let me know what you think! -- Webs of Power, http://www.websofpower.com/ ====================================================================== PE-WJ-Diplo [Acanthopis]: identities Date:Wed, 10 Oct 2007 13:11:32 +0000 To reply, log in at http://www.websofpower.com/?Page=Login or use your newspaper form. Direct email replies do not go to the sender. (This is intended to protect the privacy of other players.) ====================================================================== I have used up my diplomatic messages, but I am takig the Moderator's suggestion that we share identities as permission to do so. There will be no dipomatic information in this post, except maybe to those who have disliked me in past universes! I am....Little Puppy! More formally known as Little Puppy, Slayer of Dragons, Defender of Things both Weak and Small and Yipping Tormentor of Greater Warlords. This will, of course, only make sense to the very few of you around since the days of the W2WT, but there are still some of you. For others, I have played four other games here (if I'm remembering them all) as eeee (my only other victory), Gosling Puff, Mothra, and My Pretty Pony. By day, you can find me whiling away the productive years of my life on the World of Warcraft Hydraxis server as the mage Littlepuppy. But, when I can peel myself away from such silliness, I am on sabbatical for a year, living in New Hampshire and writing an introductory environmental science textbook with a colleague here at Dartmouth. For six out of every seven years, though, I live in Des Moines. I like diplomacy, but I have had fun in all of the games that I have played here. My only concern with "announcements only" type games is that they give an advantage to people who know each other and are willing to cheat. Plus, as you may have noticed, I'm a chatty guy. But, in the interest of making the game accessible to Bob, and in the interests of avoiding some of the harsh feelings that seem to have developed here, I am happy with the rules that the moderator has suggested. -- Acanthopis