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PE-WI-Diplo [TwoCool]: 2T Ceasefire
Date:Wed, 28 May 2003 15:57:11 +0000

TwoCool sends

I will cease operations against Tzu Doh Nam for two turns, including
this turn. If the LXG clock is stopped, then negotiations can resume.
Otherwise, it's off to another New Era and my congratulations go out
to the LXG alliance.

end transmission


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PE-WI-Diplo [The Watchers]: Quick Comments
Date:Wed, 28 May 2003 16:48:16 +0000

Hello all - 

My read on the current situation - please correct my numbers if I'm
wrong!

By my count, the LXG now holds 186 out of 558 regions, or exactly 1/3.
Unless something changes, the world will end when the Turn 93 news
comes out.
On the other hand, the doomsday clock will be stopped if the LXG loses
a region, the number of regions in the world increases but the LXG
doesn't grow, or another alliance group grows up to control more than
2/3 of the LXG's regions.  (Any such alliance will need more than 125
regions, especially if the LXG grows, which is expected with the
announcements of regions being returned to Kirdel.)  The closest
alliance group is the BOB with 116 regions.  I have joined the BOB and
encourage those who don't want the world to end yet to do the same
this turn.

Also:  I thank painted dog and TwoCool for their latest messages and
will reply when I have more time.  Ditto for Tzu.

Finally:  It seems to me that one might classify each nation based on
two characteristics:  Frst, do they want the world to end, or to
continue?  Second, do they want wars, or peace?  That leads to four
groupings:  World-Ending Warriors, Not-Ending Warriors, World-Ending
Peaceniks, and Not-Ending Peaceniks.  These labels are not very
precise (most of us want peace but will fight wars some of the time). 
But at any given moment each person's stance must fall into one of the
four groups.  

At the risk of offending everyone, based on recent messages I would
guess that xXx is a World-Ending Warrior (he wants the LXG to win the
game; he says he has the most fun when he's fighting wars), Ubuu is a
World-Ending Peacenik (he has just withdrawn from the LXG, but wants a
New Era, NE), and My Pretty Pony is a Never-Ending Peacenik.  Until
this turn TwoCool was a Never-Ending Warrior trying to stop the LXG by
shrinking it.  For my own part, I got bored with the game and tried
being a world-ending warrior when I was in the TA, but I didn't like
it at all, and I am now back to being a never-ending peacenik who is
occasionally willing to fight.

If we really wanted to get fancy, we could rate ourselves from 1-9 in
terms of how much we each want the world to continue, and from 1 to 9
in terms of how peaceful each of us is.  Then put the two numbers
together to get a pair.  Ponies seem like 9-9 to us, xXx seems like a
1-3 (really wants the world to end, and likes to fight but only in
certain circumstances).  Hornblower seems like a 7-5.  I, The
Watchers, am about a 7-7 (at least to myself - others may see it
differently!).  And so on.  

The fun part is that alliance groupings seem to depend largely on your
rating.  Those who want the world to end are presently either in the
LXG or likely to put an NE after their name.  Those who don't want the
world to end need to find a way to stop the LXG, so either they fight
or they join BOB, or they try to convince others to leave the LXG or
to join the BOB.  And so on.

Now that everyone's bored to tears with my "quick comments", I'll shut
up!

The Watchers


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PE-WI-Diplo [-xXx-]: New Era
Date:Wed, 28 May 2003 17:59:52 +0000

The BOB alliance only needs about one more nation to join to stop the
LXG from winning in 2 turns.  I don't foresee this being a problem for
them to do.  LXG needs to keep 3/2 more regions than any other
alliance to win.  That is why I will be adding the [NE] to my nation
name this turn.

I like the idea of the world restarting in a new era and having Bob
Almighty stick us into random groups of 2 or 3 nations that are allied
from the beginning.  Further rules would have to be made I'm sure but
the general concept sounds very appealing to me.  I suppose questions
about what do if one alliance wants to join with another alliance or
if one alliance member resigns or is acting against who he is supposed
to be allied with would have to be answered.  I also wonder if allies
would start with a connection or in the same area of the world or just
randomly separated as normal.

Oh, and I would say I'm more a 1,4 than a 1,3 in The Watchers scale. 
I haven't attacked anyone without a good reason and have stopped all
attacks since the TA disbanded.  I do enjoy war but only if it can be
entered into or left with honor.  That's why I don't understand how
some nations from TA are trying to reclaim their lost regions as if
they have some right to them.  You fought in a war and lost some land
and decided to quit ... you lost, why should you get your land back
afterwards as if nothing happened?  There is just no honor in actions
such as this.  If you wanted your lands back then you should have kept
your alliance together until you got what you wanted and then quit. 
Batu at least had the honor to accept his losses and not try to demand
or take back what he lost after his alliance folded.  If only the rest
of his comrades could accept the consequences of quitting.  I suppose
some large nations feel that might makes right and that they should
get to be back on top of the leader boards again even if they lost
because they can bully smaller nations into giving back lands.  You
should at least offer to buy the lands back with troops if you have
even a shred of honor.

That is all,
-xXx-



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PE-WI-Diplo [Kennendras]: Some more thoughts
Date:Wed, 28 May 2003 18:58:31 +0000

I'll be adding the NE tag to my nation, as i suggested it.  Should
probably get an award for most tags (3 in all now)

We need 15 total nations to add the NE tag.  Then Bob can restart it
for us.

About rules.  We should probably discuss them here, then hand Bob the
set of suggested rules by us.  Make his life easier.

here are things we need to sort out.  Feel free to add on:

Starting borders or not
Start alliances in groups (all have borders to eachother)
Alliance "hopping"
ALliance Merging
Alliange Splitting
Spying
New additions to world
Open or Closed world


-Kennendras of Astoec
[IL-BOB-NE]




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PE-WI-Diplo [TwoCool]: Thanks
Date:Wed, 28 May 2003 20:02:12 +0000

TwoCool thanks Kennendras for almost single handedly making my
Alliance Hopping prediction look good.


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PE-WI-Diplo [Kennendras]: Your Welcome
Date:Wed, 28 May 2003 20:55:07 +0000

Any time.

Actually, NE isnt an alliance.  Its merely a vote for a New Era.

And im gonna leave BOB once a decision on the future is made.

Good prediction though.  Im but the first.

-Kennendras of Astoec


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PE-WI-Diplo [Skeletor]: AFENGal-SKELETal War and Stuff
Date:Sun, 01 Jun 2003 01:59:36 +0000


The battle with AFENG has ended.  The attacks occurred because the
terms of the surrender were never followed:

"The LXG has conferred and through a majority vote we have come to a
conclusion of what the surrender terms for The Alliance shall be.  Any
regions gained by the LXG shall remain under LXG control.  Any regions
taken by The Alliance that belonged to LXG members at the beginning of
the 
conflict shall be returned at once."

HH and his ilk continued to occupy territory of former LXG members. 
Therefore I continued to attack.

I have come to a realization now that AFENG should not suffer anymore
losses due to the greed of Hornblower.  The same greed and selfishness
that caused TA to fail.  

I have now decided to change my tag to [NE] because:
NE=LXG_Victory - HH_Whining

I am sure that many will disagree, but I see NE symbolizing the LXG's
thorough defeat of the TA and everything they represented.  NE is just
a nice, friendly, PC way to end it so nobody's feelings get hurt.  See
you are a "winner" HH!! ;)

Now go find someone else to hegemon-ize.

--SKELETOR--




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PE-WI-Diplo [Kennendras]: Chuckle
Date:Sun, 01 Jun 2003 14:28:20 +0000

Regardless of "who" wins and who feels like the didnt lose, we still
need to decide on new game conditions.  You all know my vote.  

Alliances from start.  Im thinking about 5 or 6 alliances, with about
5 or 6 members each.

Switching sides:  Dont see how we can stop it really, without lots of
extra coding.  But it will be much more fun if we dont switch sides.

Alliance Merges:  No merges.  Alliances may work together, but not
become one.

Alliance Splits:  ALliance may split, but cannot have less that 3
player per splitted alliance.  May re-merge with old partners, but not
others.

Starting Borders:  Doesnt really matter.  It will make Bob's life
easier if we all start random, like normal.  Shouldnt make a big
difference either way.


Those are my thoughts.  Anyone care to help?

-Kennendras of Astoec