======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [AFENG]: 1 Agreed, rest by Treachery
Date:Sun, 25 May 2003 16:48:13 +0000

The Admiral of the Royal Navy has agreed to purchase of a landing
strip for his carrier flyers to use when hard ground is required for
maintenance and upkeep.   His assault was not an assault, but just
moving to secure his legitimate purchase of this parcel.

Unlike the cold and vicious assault that Skeletor has accosted my
MAJCOMs.  He lied through a veil of justification that he couldn't
stop and assaulted unjustly 2 more of my regions.  Now he has went
even farther for 2 more turns.  May this show everyone the cold and
evil treachery that Skeletor IS.



======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [The Watchers]: Time to Enforce Peace
Date:Tue, 27 May 2003 00:36:32 +0000

A notice to TwoCool (ex-TA), Painted Dog (ex-TA) and Skeletor (LXG) -


Your pattern of aggression at this time is likely to be suicidal,
because everyone can see you are now attacking for profit without real
cause.  Do not think that the chaos of the world prevents other
nations from taking notes about your ethics!  More importantly, your
acts of aggression are a threat to our shared world, because unless
the LXG nations no longer feel threatened and agree to disband their
alliance, this world will end.

Therefore, this is your two-turns' notice that The Watchers will not
tolerate your continued acts of aggression and warfare against your
respective enemies (Tzu, Kirdel/Frobenius, and AFENG, respectively
from this past turn, plus any others).  The Watchers will supply aid
to your enemies immediately, and in your Turn 92 newspapers you may
expect to begin seeing reports of hostile Watchers crossing your
borders.  We urge you to desist and open negotiations.  If you feel
you have a just cause you should have voiced it first and attacked
second, not the other way around.  Instead you give cause to all
nations to oppose your land-grabbing ways.

The Watchers



======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [H. Hornblower]: The Fighting must stop
Date:Tue, 27 May 2003 01:19:52 +0000

In order for the world to reach any sort of negotiated settlement,
fighting must cease. Two Cool, painted dog, and Skeletor have been
notable for their continued aggression while other nations have worked
towards peace. 

The Royal Navy has supported AFENG in his defense of his home land. We
will continue to do so through transfers of ships. We request that
Skeletor cease his attacks now. While he may feel safe in that the
Royal Navy does not border his nation, we are willing to supply AFENG
with the forces he needs to defend himself. 

Two Cool and painted dog have resisted all pleas to act with
restraint. Unlike the Watchers, the Royal Navy does not have a two
turn warning policy. We will not attack this turn, as Two Cool and
painted dog need time to react and acknowledge our request. The Royal
Navy recognizes that these nations may have already sent orders to
their troops, and that these orders cannot be recalled. If Two Cool
and painted dog do not make a public announcement that they will
adhere to a ceasefire before T92, the Royal Navy will take this as a
sign of continued belligerence and a state of war will exist between
us. 

We do not take these actions lightly. Two Cool and painted dog have
been friends and allies for a long time. But we cannot allow their
rash behavior to drive the world to an end. They must understand that
they will lose more then they can hope to gain if they persist with
these actions. 

While we have discussed the world situation with the Watchers and have
reached the same conclusions, the Royal Navy is not allied with the
Watchers or coordinating our actions with them. 

We hope that these announcements, along with those of the Watchers,
will cause Skeletor, Two Cool, and painted dog to reconsider their
course of action. 

H. Hornblower


======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [Ima Noob]: Umm, hello, end game near LXG
Date:Tue, 27 May 2003 02:33:55 +0000

Well, as I look over my recent turn, I notice that NINE LXG MEMBERS
still exist.  Now, unless I don't understand the laws of this world,
my understanding is that in 2 turns if NINE LXG MEMBERS remain then
the world as we know it ends.  All of this talk about TwoCool and
Painted Dog's actions is a waste of breathe, let's talk about what
will happen if LXG doesn't remove their alliance.

I am trying to find some god awful reason for LXG tags to be on
anyone's names at this time and for the life of me I see no fathomable
reason.  Someone mentioned something like "LXG feels threatened so
until they don't they will remain", but I say Pony Poop!  You don't
need to be in an alliance that will end the game just to show support
for the other countries in the alliance that are being attacked.  Try
this - take your LXG tag off, yell out "I AM SUPPORTING THIS SCHMOE"
and be done with it.  If anyone in their right mind feels that by
staying with LXG it will stop attacks, you probably need to get that
mind looked at somewhere and take the short bus to get there.

If there is no definite word before the next turn that the LXG is
disbanding this turn, then I will propose the immediate attack of any
LXG member to [IL] and make a request for all non-LXG members to make
immediate attacks to prevent the end of the world.  LXG has had far
too much time to disband or even mention their intentions but they
have done nothing to show they don't want to end the world to this
point.  If anyone has problems with this then take it up with my new
country once the game is over in 2 turns from your lack of action to
prevent it.  

Ima "gonna die soon with no action" Noob


======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [Picard]: RE:[Ima Noob]: Umm, hello, end
Date:Tue, 27 May 2003 03:37:45 +0000

Greetings,

Commander Data just wanted to point out an alternative that Ima Noob
may have overlooked.  To prevent the "end of game" all you need do is
temporarily have all nations who want this universe to continue to add
a "tag" such as [BOB] indicating their desire (named in honor of our
great deity Bob almighty).  There would be no need for an alliance,
and most certainly no need for an attack.  As some member of the
former-TA argued, just declaring should be sufficient as there is no
proof of intent to fight if confronted with a "counter-allaince".

These are all simply some thoughts of a sentiant android, so take them
as you wish.  Alternative viewpoints are welcome as it is really up to
all of you anyway.  For now, The Federation will not add the "tag" as
Starfleet Command wishs to leave the decision up to the other
nations.

-- Picard


____Copy of Ima-Noob message referred to above__________

Subject:  PE-WI-Diplo [Ima Noob]: Umm, hello, end game near LXG 
       
 


Well, as I look over my recent turn, I notice that NINE LXG MEMBERS 
still exist.  Now, unless I don't understand the laws of this world,
my 
understanding is that in 2 turns if NINE LXG MEMBERS remain then the 
world as we know it ends.  All of this talk about TwoCool and Painted
Dog's 
actions is a waste of breathe, let's talk about what will happen if
LXG 
doesn't remove their alliance.

I am trying to find some god awful reason for LXG tags to be on 
anyone's names at this time and for the life of me I see no fathomable
reason.  
Someone mentioned something like "LXG feels threatened so until they 
don't they will remain", but I say Pony Poop!  You don't need to be in
an 
alliance that will end the game just to show support for the other 
countries in the alliance that are being attacked.  Try this - take
your 
LXG tag off, yell out "I AM SUPPORTING THIS SCHMOE" and be done with
it.  
If anyone in their right mind feels that by staying with LXG it will 
stop attacks, you probably need to get that mind looked at somewhere
and 
take the short bus to get there.

If there is no definite word before the next turn that the LXG is 
disbanding this turn, then I will propose the immediate attack of any
LXG 
member to [IL] and make a request for all non-LXG members to make 
immediate attacks to prevent the end of the world.  LXG has had far
too much 
time to disband or even mention their intentions but they have done 
nothing to show they don't want to end the world to this point.  If
anyone 
has problems with this then take it up with my new country once the 
game is over in 2 turns from your lack of action to prevent it.  

Ima "gonna die soon with no action" Noob



======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [Tzu Doh Nam]: Tzu's Perspective
Date:Tue, 27 May 2003 16:54:44 +0000

I'm in a pickle.  First I have TwoCool blasting through my
regions despite the breakup of TA.  He is clearly acting out
of greed and spite from being left adrift by the leaders of TA.
Next I have Hornblower demanding that he be allowed to 
take back regions lost in the war...  regions that would increase
his production and regions FAR above what he started the
war with.   The Watchers has entered this negotiation process
as a mediator--being willing to give some troops and regions
back to me as a sacrifice for global peace, but I'm not sure
that giving 11 production and 3 regions to Hornblower is in
the interests of global peace (especially while noting his 
disregard for his fellow TA nations, his self-stated dislike of giving
troops to help the smaller TA nations and his beligerent
demands after the truce was set in place.)

I am confident that with Watchers as mediator, Hornblower 
and I will be able to settle this particular border.  If I am lucky, 
TwoCool will be induced to remove his invading troops as 
well.  I suspect TwoCool and painted dog are two nations from TA that
were left to fend for themselves by the leaders of TA.  That may not
be true, but now they are being punished by 
those same leaders....  It does not bode well for the future 
of this world.


If you look at the leader board before the war and after the war,
you will see that the large nations were not affected much by the
war.  The leaders of both sides are bigger and better off than
before and there are few newcomers.  Batu moved down quite
a few spots, but I believe that is because he was not a leader
of TA--he certainly wasn't asking his neighbors to be in the
alliance and leaving out others (Note:  Hornblower had only
two neighbors on LXG at the start of hostilities.)  I suspect Batu
also had little say in the disbanding of TA.  Certainly it was not
to his advantage to have the group leave each nation on its
own to try to patch together a way to get regions back.  Picard
was a notable exception in the gains he made during the war.
It is not surprising to me that he is now lobbying for continuing
the world--given his newly improved stature in the hierarchy.

I would argue that the world is pretty well determined at this point. 
Watchers and Hornblower dominated the size aspect  and still will if
and when Hornblower gets his way
with my regions.  -xXx-, picard and others get an award for biggest
impact on the game through organizing the LXG into
a winning team.  Hornblower gets an award for most whining after a
loss.  Frobenius gets an award for remaining independent from each
alliance, and still helping to keep the
world going.  Pretty Pony gets an award for...  well...  being the
most  Peaceiest!!......  and the most entertaining. 
Lovies to Pretty Pony!!!

As for the larger issue of the fate of the LXG....
What follows is my personal opinion and not that of LXG which
is still pondering the issue:
The current world is fairly well determined.  Watchers and Hornblower
will be on top--continue to make gains (if not
through the LXG, than through policing the smaller TA nations.)
They will eventually form another alliance when they grow bored
and they'll be more careful about the whole thing.  It is really
hard to attack the top people without a coordinated effort and while I
saw a coordinated effort in LXG to fight off the TA, I don't see that
continuing unless another alliance forms.
The alternative to that future is to allow that LXG won the first
round although they didn't conquer the world--and start a new world
where the initial growth and attachments provide a vibrant and ever
changing landscape to develop.

Picard is right that there are many ways to keep this world going that
don't involve fighting or an alliance in the usual sense.  Forming a
Bob alliance to keep this world going would be an interesting twist --
and continue the two alliance nature of this
world. It is even likely that the LXG would get new recruits once 
it becomes clear who the Bob organization would include.

I don't know which would be more fun a new world or a continued
version of this world with twists.  It depends on
the twists.  I think that is part of what the LXG is talking about.
I (again, not LXG, but me personally) request anyone with
creative ideas to voice them.
Tzu


======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [H. Hornblower]: Tzu's comments
Date:Tue, 27 May 2003 17:34:38 +0000

I do not usually like to respond to these sort of comments, but Tzu
went too far and crossed the line of reason. I won't comment on all of
his message, just the specific parts where he misrepresented the
affairs of the Royal Navy. 

Tzu said "Next I have Hornblower demanding that he be allowed to 
take back regions lost in the war...  regions that would increase
his production and regions FAR above what he started the
war with. "

I gained 3 regions in the war from Kirdel and have agreed to return
them to her. I lost 3 regions to Tzu, which I intend to regain. That
is the sum of all territory changes that occurred during the war. What
great growth is it that Tzu refers to? 

Tzu said "I suspect TwoCool and painted dog are two nations from TA
that were left to fend for themselves by the leaders of TA.  That may
not be true, but now they are being punished by those same leaders....
It does not bode well for the future of this world."

The truth is that the disollution of the Alliance had to be complete
and that each nation had to make its own way or the LXG would have
rightfully felt that the Alliance had not disbanded. 

Tzu has asked for help in getting Two Cool to stop attacking and allow
for a negotaited settlement. He has asked me and the Watchers for such
assistance. We both tried through a number of diplomatic messages to
achieve this. When Two Cool refused, the Watchers and the Royal Navy
have each decided to raise the pressure on them by threatening to
attack them if they do not stop. This is what Tzu wants, yet he points
this out as some misdeed on our part. If Two Cool and painted dog back
down, then there will be no attacks and the world can proceed more
peacefully. Tzu, what would you have preferred we do, let Two Cool
continue to attack you?

Tzu talks about the Alliance 'leadership' as if this was a group run
by a few nations. He is wrong. As with the LXG, it was a democracy,
with each member getting an equal vcte. We voted to dissolve and all
(or almost all, there may have been one member who was traveling and
heard about it after the decision was made) agreed that dissolving the
Alliance made sense. 

Tzu may believe I was a leader of the Alliance because I was the
spokesman and one of the larger members. By that token, is -xXx-  the
leader of the LXG?

My final comment to Tzu is simple. I did not attack him. He attacked
me. He has 1/3 the number of armies I do. He is being attacked by Two
Cool and having trouble defending what he has

I am willing to make peace with him, but as the one who attacked me, I
do not see why he thinks I should allow him such profit from his
attacks. I have been very patient. I have a large fleet, as large as
Tzu's entire army, sitting idle on the border. It is because I do want
a peaceful resolution that I have not sent them to attack Boston. But
my patience is wearing thin, as Tzu has done nothing but ignore my
request that he depart peacefully. Tzu has never tried to negotiate.
If he did, he might find that I am willing to work out reasonable
deals, that he might be able to get armies or other territories to
help him in his fight with Two Cool, just not the 3 he covets. 

I welcome the Watchers assistance. Perhaps Tzu will listen to him
where he has been unwlling to talk to me. 

H. Hornblower



======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [Ima Noob]: Re: Tzu's perspective
Date:Tue, 27 May 2003 17:38:51 +0000

I am not falling for this one!  It appears that Tzu wishes to make me
read a long message in order to delay me from entering my turn.  He
cleverly adds a question on the end to make me "think" while time
quickly passes by for the LXG victory.  Enough of your cunning ploys
LXG, disband now or face the wrath of my mighty army!  Well, at least
you'll suffer to the wrath of my humor :)

Ima "on the edge of insanity" Noob


======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [The Watchers]: Re: Tzu-Hornblower, Kirdel...
Date:Tue, 27 May 2003 17:48:26 +0000

Gentlemen, 

Since you have both agreed to my offer to mediate your dispute, my
first request is that, now that you both have said your piece, you
should both choose not to discuss your conflict further in the public
forum, at least not until an agreement is reached.  Everyone is more
sensitive to words spoken in public, and when feelings are inflamed
the prospect of finding a peaceful solution becomes much more
difficult.

It would be helpful if Kirdel could confirm that she now has an
agreement with Hornblower which will lead to the return of her
nations.  

The Watchers

P.S. For my own part, I have just accepted a proposal by Kirdel to
return to her a set of territories equivalent to what she lost to me
in the recent war.



======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [My Pretty Pony]: Bob "alliance"
Date:Tue, 27 May 2003 17:50:07 +0000

Boy, a pony simply goes to a little conference for a few days (in
Saratoga Springs, no less... Lots of shops there were all excited
about Funny ponies), and look how much reading she has to do when she
gets back... 

When LXG first asked us to join their nice group, they said that it
would be to keep TA from winning forever. I said that was a good idea,
but no alliances for ponies. But it seems they forgot.

You know that stuff they put in potato chips and honey-oat bags to
make you want to keep eating and eating, and then when you're finally
done you feel yucky because you ate too many? Well, very clever ponies
have been thinking about this a lot, and we think they put the same
thing on guns.

Anyway, I want to help my LXG friends remember about peace, so I am
going to join the Bob alliance. I am not going to fight anybody or
agree to help anybody out. I am just going to be part of the alliance
until LXG doesn't kill the world. Then I'll quit, and they'll see how
easy it is.

And, hey, Hornblower, you be nice to doggie. Even though I was mad at
him for making TA all secrety, he got totally smushered in your
alliance. Poor doggie. I don't know why he's fighting Frobenius,
though. Maybe I don't pay enough attention.

Oh well. Everybody come join BOB! We'll have a fun BBQ in my pastures
and then quit. Lovies!


======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [Tzu Doh Nam]: Re: H's reponse
Date:Tue, 27 May 2003 18:30:54 +0000

I am fairly confident that my figures are correct, although
I perhaps didn't compute the number of regions as Hornblower
has.  I am a librarian, and as such I try to make sure I get 
my facts straight.  On other issues, Hornblower and I disagree
on perspective or opinion, and I think it is reasonable for us
to disagree at least until we see each other's points of view.

His comments:
1) gains during the war:  I simply looked at the international
news for Turn 80 and Turn 90 to find the change in Hornblower's
status during the war.  In region count, he went from 33 to 35.
In production he stayed at 79.  If I give him 3 regions worth 11
production, he would be far ahead of where he was at the start
of the war.  This was my statement.

I had not heard that he was giving back 3 regions to Kirdel,
though it would have been in his best interests to tell me so.
Part of his efforts to forget his TA days again I guess... but more 
on that later. 
In any case, I am fairly sure(though I haven't looked it up) that
the three regions of Kirdel's are not worth 11 production and that
the war would thus leave Hornblower much better off than before
the war.
The terms of truce with LXG were clear: TA returns to former
borders and LXG retains gains.  No counteroffer from TA members has
appeared to this arrangement.

2) The dissolution of the TA had to be complete....

He claims that he had to abandon his allies, but I think that
is a self-deceiving argument to alleviate guilt.  A unified TA
that asked for terms of surrender would have worked much better at
keeping the world together than complete breakdown
and chaos.  Region negotiations could have been made with
all parties and confusions like the ones mentioned in 1) would
have been alleviated.

3) Help against TwoCool.
I did not personally request help from the Watchers nor Hornblower to
repell TwoCool.  My request was to all nations
and only pointed out that TwoCool and painted dog had not
ceased their attack.  Yet again, it is clear that a unified TA would
be helpful even in defeat.  I certainly appreciate the offers for
help from Hornblower and Watchers and I hope justice can be
obtained.  But its not like a I personally asked H to help and then
chastised him for it--I just wanted to point out that I understand at
some level what TwoCool's motives are.  Hornblower's statement of what
I want is only his opinion of what I want, and we clearly haven't been
communicating well.  I hope that with a mediator this will improve.

4) TA leadership

A democracy has leaders....  certainly -xXx- is a leader in the LXG. 
Not just because of his size, but because of his early membership and
energetic participation.  I am not saying that
Hornblower and Watchers decided everything for TA nor that 
they were leaders due to size.  I only mean that they were leaders and
the breakup of TA was "conveniently timed" in their
interests.   [Take note TwoCool, the convenience was for the
leaders of TA, not for nations like yours that were about to reap
gains.] 

Certainly some members of TA who voted to disband did
not agree with the idea of surrender (as they continue to fight).
I was not privy to the debate of the TA dissolution, so I am left
to speculate.  Further information from active participants in that
decision would be helpful.  Sometimes leaders can be pursuasive beyond
what they realise and it takes a good leader
to notice this and act accordingly.

5) That I attacked H and he did not attack me.
It is true that Hornblower has not invaded my lands directly.  But the
formation of TA was an attack and the subsequent invasion of Kirdel
was an attack on my nation as much as any
other in LXG except Kirdel himself.   Those that seek world
hegemony should expect to fail and not expect to gain from their
attempts.  Hornblower is being patient by not invading me to 
recover his lands.  He is also being dishonorable in expecting 
to receive these lands back without compensation.

I am pleased to see that he complains that I have not counter-offered.
It means he may be willing to negotiate afterall.  Apparently he
hasn't bothered to notice my counter-offers of
the terms of the truce.  Once again, our miscommunication is
clear and I hope that mediation will help us to see what we each
mean instead of what we think the other means.

Tzu


======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [Athena]: From an independent perspectiv
Date:Tue, 27 May 2003 18:33:10 +0000

We of Olympus were recently made knowledgable of these chaotic lands,
where many cultures were battling for supremacy. This has picqued our
interest, and as such, we have seen fit to send out a force to see
whom we can sway to follow our beliefs.

When I arrived, I witnessed huge armies doing battle over a multitude
of lands that I have never heard of, and never expect to see with my
own eyes. These huge battles have since tapered off, except for a few
minor skirmishes.

However, it would seem that a greater force looms, one that can unmake
the whole world in a matter of days. As such, I feel it neccessary to
stand against such a force, even with as minor as my position is. For
the time being, The Pantheon will join this alliance "bob", and when
the threat has passed, we shall go back to our own business. 

Hopefully, we will be able to continue this dialogue with the rest of
the cultures, once these events have passed.


======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [-xXx-]: My Stance
Date:Tue, 27 May 2003 18:40:41 +0000

I was having a blast during the battle between the LXG and TA.  We
were winning some and losing some and I looked forward to every turn's
news to see how we were doing.  I enjoyed helping the LXG organize our
troop placement, attacks, and general strategy.  Just as the battle
seemed to be swinging our way in the slightest way The Alliance
folded.  I can only assume they meant to cut their losses and that
they could not compete with the LXG's high level of organization.  If
the battle was truly in favor of the LXG in a big way then I could
understand the disbanding of TA but it was still a very close fight as
far as I could see.  I find myself once again gathering up my loose
troops from around my nation and stacking them on my borders with
nothing better to do from turn to turn.  If I could tell my troops
that we won the war then I think I could withdraw from the LXG but the
truth of the matter is that the enemy cried "Uncle" and because of my
honor I will not continue to attack them.  For this reason I will
leave the LXG tag on my nation name and seek to end the world in a
victorious alliance consisting of my allies.  Even if the LXG did
disband then with lingering alliances from the LXG and TA and fear of
Web War II I think this world would sink into another boring slump. 
Already any fighting is trying to be stopped through mediation.  I
only wish I bordered painted dog so I could smack him with my
newspaper and teach him some manners.  He could at least pick on
someone his own size.

It was my impression that the sole reason TA formed was to end the
world so I cannot think that any former member of that alliance would
object to the world ending.  My leaving the LXG alone you still get
what you were after, just from a different source.

These are just my opinions and my reasons for keeping the LXG tag on
my name.  I may be seen as a leader in LXG but in no way am I speaking
for the group here.

-xXx-


======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [-xXx-]: My Stance
Date:Tue, 27 May 2003 18:41:01 +0000

I was having a blast during the battle between the LXG and TA.  We
were winning some and losing some and I looked forward to every turn's
news to see how we were doing.  I enjoyed helping the LXG organize our
troop placement, attacks, and general strategy.  Just as the battle
seemed to be swinging our way in the slightest way The Alliance
folded.  I can only assume they meant to cut their losses and that
they could not compete with the LXG's high level of organization.  If
the battle was truly in favor of the LXG in a big way then I could
understand the disbanding of TA but it was still a very close fight as
far as I could see.  I find myself once again gathering up my loose
troops from around my nation and stacking them on my borders with
nothing better to do from turn to turn.  If I could tell my troops
that we won the war then I think I could withdraw from the LXG but the
truth of the matter is that the enemy cried "Uncle" and because of my
honor I will not continue to attack them.  For this reason I will
leave the LXG tag on my nation name and seek to end the world in a
victorious alliance consisting of my allies.  Even if the LXG did
disband then with lingering alliances from the LXG and TA and fear of
Web War II I think this world would sink into another boring slump. 
Already any fighting is trying to be stopped through mediation.  I
only wish I bordered painted dog so I could smack him with my
newspaper and teach him some manners.  He could at least pick on
someone his own size.

It was my impression that the sole reason TA formed was to end the
world so I cannot think that any former member of that alliance would
object to the world ending.  By leaving the LXG alone you still get
what you were after, just from a different source.

These are just my opinions and my reasons for keeping the LXG tag on
my name.  I may be seen as a leader in LXG but in no way am I speaking
for the group here.

-xXx-


======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [TwoCool]: Alliance Hopping 
Date:Tue, 27 May 2003 19:15:48 +0000

TwoCool predicts

I see alliance hopping as the next big fad for this web. When My
Pretty Pony goes "BOB" on us, the end is near or a new fad is on the
horizon. I'm guessing the latter. It should be interesting to see if
the skillful tacticians of the LXG can deploy a strategy to combat
multiple and mobile Anti-End Game (AEG) alliances. That is, if enough
of them can come together for just one turn. And most alliances can
form and disband in one turn, but region bound armadas cannot.

end crystal ball gazing


======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [Kennendras]: Thoughts
Date:Tue, 27 May 2003 19:29:45 +0000

Well, we've come full circle...back to endless debates with messages
taking up tomes.

Ive recently been rethinking my ideas on whether this world should
continue or not.  There will either be another huge war with
game-ending alliances, or we will bicker and debate and talk of peace
for another century.

WWI was indeed interesting, but Astoec is not fit enough to
participate again, sadly.  Be that as it may, my Legions grow tired of
guarding silent borders and my scribes are weary of shuffling troops
about mindlessly.

My suggestion.  We place the [NE] tag next to our names (as suggested
in the official document from the Creator) to begin a New Era.  The
twist in this new era?

All rules are same.  Outside communication is allowed, etc.  Same
nations, same names.  But we are paired up in teams from the
beginning.  Web War from the start.  All out, whoever decimates the
other first wins.  No peace.  Like Quest for Supremecy, but with
teams.  There could be 3 teams, 4 teams, 2 teams, whatever.  

Or pair up with "tactical teams", groups of 3 nations dedicated to
eachother, willing to coordinate to take land.  Not an alliance of 7,
but 3.  Big difference.

Either way, this world grows weary with its endless debates about
right and wrong, intentions and betrayals.  Our monks die happily
knowing they will not have to listen to the bickering, and our
children weep from the verbal assualts.

-Kennendras of Astoec


======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [painted dog]: the fate of okavango
Date:Tue, 27 May 2003 20:46:32 +0000

All, 

I just have returned from leave as many of you have, & will be going
thru the diplomatic messages. I will email appropriate responses late
tonight [~12a EDT wed.may.28] I thank you in advance for your
patience. [sorry i can't respond earlier]

-painted dog


======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [Ima Noob]: Announcement
Date:Wed, 28 May 2003 01:53:57 +0000

In order to prevent the end of the world as we know it, I am joining
the peaceful BOB alliance.  My sole purpose is prevent the end of the
world by LXG and not to aggressively end the world by joining BOB.  I
will not attack unless I am attacked.  I have suggested this to my
[IL] brethren and I believe there is additional support for BOB from
them.  

If the world does come to an end, I do believe adding some sort of
minor twist would spice up the gameplay from the existing world.  I
believe Kenendras is on to something in his suggestion of alliances as
it forces every member to work together in some manner.  We have seen
this in action by TA and LXG and everyone does seem to have more
interest in what happens.  I recommend that the people of this world,
or even LXG if they get to decide, look at some small change that
could bring about different outcomes.  Formed alliances would require
no programming changes as everything would be random to start, so only
minor rule additions would be required.  Please share your thoughts
before the world ends and we can do nothing about it.



======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [painted dog]: painted dog has spoken
Date:Wed, 28 May 2003 04:07:34 +0000

To all you historians, librarians & etc:

below are messages sent to my bordering nations from t89 to t90, since
somewhere lost in all the messages back & forth the world opinion is
that i'm attacking others to gain, when as i stated i'm only
"regaining" which for some seems to be justified, but apparantly not
for me. [HH & etc]. I only wish i had sent my messages to all at the
time instead of to just the individual leaders, then i think people
would understand my reasoning though i'm sure they disapprove of my
actions. 

Prior to entering the TA, i had peace w/ most nations i border &
generally good relations. Now in the post WWI i can't expect things to
go back, [& i don't] but I'm willing work for what was & in general i
think i have. I have been true to my word, I have left the caputured
territories of Ubuu & the Council, but i have also pursued regain my
territories from Frobenius & Kirdel [both haven't responded back] & i
haven't been enterly successful [i lost to Frobenius this past turn
(t90) & broke even w/ Kirdel (i took the one forward & she slipped
pasted & took the area just behind me)] so i really don't think i'm
'threat' but if i'm viewed as such, so be it. 

i would continue to pursue my reclamation of lost territories, except
that i do not wish to let the LXG win [no offense to anyone in the LXG
(including -xXx- who wishes to smack me w/ a newspaper ;-) ) i'm here
to play (as doggies are playful & always ready to romp)] & so i have
decided to join the 'Bob' alliance. Since the 'Bob' alliance is a
peaceful one, i will stand down & will not attempt to regain any more
of my lost territories. 

please feel free to contact me.

best regards,

-painted dog [sorry this was quite long]

archived messages:

Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 17:28:24 'plus'0000 
PE-WI Message from painted dog to Frobenius

Greetings Frobenius,

Since you will going back to you to your studies [an admirable 
pursuit], do you still plan on staying in okavango? I understand your
reasons 
for joining the LXG & for wanting to keep the territories taken, but
as 
leader of my nation i hope you will undersand that i plan to get them

back. Also i will be plain & upfront, the return of the territories is

all i want, what ever your decision & the outcome, if fate is to be on

my side, know that i will go no farther than pre-WWI borders.  

I don't wish to be pushy or imposing, i usually am not, but this
matter 
is most important to okavango. Beyond this issue,  i wish our nations

peace. 

-painted dog

---

Wed, 21 May 2003 11:19:46 'plus'0000
PE-WI Message from painted dog to the Council

Dear Council of Ivhaa, 

As events have unfolded, i do not wish that our nations be at war. As

i'm trying to regain lost territory, i'm sure you too would like your

territory back & thus i will not occupy the brick city any longer. I
am 
sorry for any loss of life between our people. I hope you understand &

will consider mutual peace between us. 

-painted dog

---

Wed, 21 May 2003 11:20:31 'plus'0000
PE-WI Message from painted dog to Ubu Roi

Dear Ubuu,

I am pursuing regaining my lost lands & hope you can understand this.

I'm sure you too want your lands back, i will be moving out of your 
parking lot. Since we have long been friends prior to WWI, i would
like to 
regain your friendship, & hope that you will consider this. 

-painted dog

---

Wed, 21 May 2003 11:20:42 'plus'0000
PE-WI-Diplo [painted dog]: RE: Attention former TA member

To All,

the nation of okavango is independent of any alliance & is seeking to

reclaim its lost territories. It is understood the spoils of war, so
we 
are prepared to do what is necessary to regain them. My quarrel is
only 
with those nations, & to the end, that what was lost is regained. 

-painted dog

---

Wed, 21 May 2003 11:40:20 'plus'0000
PE-WI Message from painted dog to Kirdel

Dear Kirdel,

I am pursuing regaining my lost lands i am sure that you will want to

keep then & i understand this, but know i will do what i can to get
them 
back. [it be nice if you recede from them, but i don't imagine this 
will happen] This is notice of my reclaimation, sorry its sent just
before 
a turn goes in.  

-painted dog

---
-end archive-


======================================================================

PE-WI-Diplo [H. Hornblower]: An apology to painted dog
Date:Wed, 28 May 2003 09:46:55 +0000

painted dog has spoken and spoken most reasonably. 

He has agreed to cease his attacks for now in the interest of peace.
That is all I requested of him and I am fully comfortable with his
actions. Just to be perfectly clear; his actions resolve all issues
that I had and the Royal Navy rescinds its recent declaration about
painted dog and will continue it current peaceful relations with his
nation. 

In the current state of confusion in world affairs, the Royal Navy has
apparently misconstrued the actions of painted dog as being aggressive
instead of an attempt to regain lost territories. For this we
apologize publicly and beg painted dog's foregiveness. 

We do not ask that painted dog relinquish his claims on his ancestral
lands. It would be hypocriical, as we ourselves have publicly stated
our intentions to reclaim our lost ports. We do not ask that painted
dog give up the right to reclaim these lands by force if negotiations
fail; just as we reserve the right to do so. 

We applaud his willingness to cease hostilities and allow time for
negotiation and for tempers to cool. 

The Royal Navy is proud to have painted dog as a neighbor and again
apologizes for any unintentional offense we may have given.

H. Hornblower