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PE-QS-Diplo [Jon Snow]: Clarification
Date:Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:34:26 +0000

F.D.R.,
I never had any peace agreement with Balthazar and feel do dishonor
for attacking him without giving him notice.  When fighting the forces
of evil and darkness one does as one must.  I did have an unofficial
agreement with you that I need not worry about our borders.  For this
reason I ask that you give me some notice before attacking me.  It is
a request, not a demand.  It was my mistake for not trying to set up a
formal peace treaty with you but I had no idea a force of democracy
would ever side with the demonic hordes.  I doubt they share the same
political views you do F.D.R.  I doubt Balthazar was elected as leader
of his nation.  In the demonic world he would simply have to kill the
previous leader and inspire enough fear in the other demons to not be
killed himself.  You seem to be willing to overlook the demonic nature
of your new ally.  I truly hope that you can realize this mistake
before it goes too far.  I'm sure that you are not evil as my
historians have done research on you and find that you help others and
fight for good.

Scherazade,
I find your words insightful and wise as always.  Peace be with you.

Winter is coming,
Jon Snow


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PE-QS-Diplo [Balthazar]: Are Formal Treaties Necessary?
Date:Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:59:35 +0000

Snow writes: "It was my mistake for not trying to set up a formal
peace treaty with [FDR] but I had no idea a force of democracy would
ever side with the demonic hordes."
I suppose it was my mistake for not trying to set up a formal peace
treaty with Snow...

What a two-faced villain, who shrouds himself in trappings of justice
in the fight against evil..!


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PE-QS-Diplo [Jon Snow]: Out of game comment
Date:Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:12:59 +0000

--stepping out of character, sorry Bob--
This is a role playing game.  You set up your nation and leader names
and then step into that character and then try to react to things the
way they would.  It makes the game immensely more fun than if it's
just leader 1 against leader 2.  I'm playing my character, go read
George R.R. Martin, great author.  Please play your character or
change your nation and leader name to fit your style.  Again, Sorry
Bob and everyone else, but I think that needed to be said.


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PE-QS-Diplo [Balthazar]: Ach Mortals
Date:Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:41:37 +0000

Who is this individual who writes under the guise of John Snow?  How
dare he cast aspersions on my attitude?  And suggest that I step down
to one of my underlings in a weak-willed attempt to forestall Snow's
one-man onslaught?
How dare he?
I am the son of a Demon Lord and a half-human, half-demon woman (I do
have the documents to prove this).  I enjoy living and interacting
with humans so much more than those boring demons (sorry, dad!).  My
upbringing has given me a strict, lawful, albeit quirky approach to
being good. (Think of Lt. Worf. On steroids. With a toothache.)  For
example, if a sniper was shooting into a crowd, I would not hesitate
to protect bystanders by tossing the shooter off the roof.  Once my
enemies are found, I will not rest, until they are destroyed.
That is all,
Balthazar




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PE-QS-Diplo [Balthazar]: What?
Date:Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:42:08 +0000

Who is this individual who writes under the guise of John Snow?  How
dare he cast aspersions on my attitude?  And suggest that I step down
to one of my underlings in a weak-willed attempt to forestall Snow's
one-man onslaught?
How dare he?
I am the son of a Demon Lord and a half-human, half-demon woman (I do
have the documents to prove this).  I enjoy living and interacting
with humans so much more than those boring demons (sorry, dad!).  My
upbringing has given me a strict, lawful, albeit quirky approach to
being good. (Think of Lt. Worf. On steroids. With a toothache.)  For
example, if a sniper was shooting into a crowd, I would not hesitate
to protect bystanders by tossing the shooter off the roof.  Once my
enemies are found, I will not rest, until they are destroyed.
That is all,
Balthazar




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PE-QS-Diplo [F.D.R.]: Character Definitions
Date:Thu, 28 Aug 2003 21:13:41 +0000

Snow writes:

>This is a role playing game.  You set up your nation and leader
names
>and then step into that character and then try to react to things
the
>way they would.  It makes the game immensely more fun than if it's
>just leader 1 against leader 2.  I'm playing my character, go read
>George R.R. Martin, great author.  Please play your character or
>change your nation and leader name to fit your style.  Again, Sorry
>Bob and everyone else, but I think that needed to be said.

And here I thought you were roleplaying the U.S. Treasury Secretary!
Fortunately for you, I didn't immediately decide to attack you because
in some other world Jon Snow is a Republican and I am a Democrat!  Or
because he is helping to keep the economy in the toilet, or doing any
of many other things with which I would not agree.

I am being whimsical, but I have a deeper point:  A name alone is not
a character definition. In a roleplaying game, each player not only
has the chance to choose a name, but also has the right to define what
it means. It is not for Mr. Snow to make assumptions about who Mr.
Balthazar is, or what a demon horde is (anyone seen any REAL demon
hordes lately? I thought not; perhaps Mr. Baggins may comment,
though).  I feel it is up to Balthazar to define his own character,
and I will interact with that character as I see it emerge.  I will
not try to paint him into a corner by demonizing him (pun intended).
And I will not try to import my prejudices from any other world into
this one.

A quick Yahoo White Pages search identifies over 200 people in the
U.S. whose last name is Balthazar. I sure hope Mr. Snow never meets
any of them and decides to attack them! For that matter, what if one
of them ran a nightclub, or a chain of nightclubs, named "Demon
Hordes"?  That would be as legitimate a roleplay as what Snow has
ASSUMED about Balthazar.

Now, perhaps it is my arrogant liberal bias as the repeatedly
re-elected leader of the mightiest nation on earth (prior to my
posthumous reincarnation in this universe, that is), but I do not
believe that the forces of evil generally go around advertising that
fact on their sleeves. In my previous life, a wide range of evil
leaders came to power as wolves dressed in sheep's clothing.
Considering that many of them were even democratically elected, or
else led very popular movements, it is clear that most people do not
have the ability to recognize evil when they see it. Indeed, it was
not anyone with an evil name that set the world aflame.  It was a
group of leaders who felt their way was right and who were willing to
sneak-invade another country to gain more power for his own cause. I
don't want to start a flamewar, but the parallels to the present world
are all too clear in my mind.  Perhaps I need to flush a few more
prejudices down the drain, though.

However, it is my policy to observe actions, not words (or names).
Evil is as evil does, I say. In my experience Balthazar is an
honorable nation and a friend. And I have grave concerns about anyone
who would prejudge another people, assume they were evil and should be
eliminated from the world, and attempt to
exterminate/genocide/ethnically-cleanse them without even asking who
they really were first. My own nation was founded on principles of
tolerance and, so long as I can convince a majority of my people to
follow me, I will not abide those who seek to exteriminate others
entirely without very solid reasons grounded in the events of this
world.

F.D.R.


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PE-QS-Diplo [Jon Snow]: The World From Which I Come
Date:Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:05:50 +0000

F.D.R.,
You obviously do not care about the world from which I come.  I don't
know much at all about your Democrats and Republicans, just what my
advisors have told me from their research of your world.  From what I
understand both groups are quite human though.  Some are good and some
are evil I'm sure, as I found with the politicians in my world.

You say that you doubt I have seen demons and I find that ignorant.  I
walk the northern wall with my troops, I ride ranger missions into the
wild with them to check for the approach of demons.  You have
obviously never faced demons as I have.  I sat atop my horse one cold,
crisp night looking out across a clearing that was illuminated by the
moon and saw a group of my friends ... my brothers walk into the other
side.  It was not truly them though for they had been ambushed by
demons, their souls stolen and replaced with demonic spirits.  Theirs
eyes glowed an icy blue and they did not respond to my calls.  That
night I had to kill my brothers.  This is but one story of many that I
could share with you of my days leading the army that guards the
northern wall.  My heart has grown hard from such experiences and I
have little patience left for disbelievers.

You may not come from a world with demons F.D.R. but you are truly
foolish if you believe your world to be the only one.  I know not of
these white pages that you speak or of these things called nightclubs.
I believe the root of your problem comes from the fact that you value
the lives of humans equally with demons.  Balthazar has admitted that
he is three quarters demon.  He claims that he prefers to spend his
time among the humans yet he leads a nation of "demon spawn".  Of
course demons prefer to spend time among humans, it is from them they
get their pleasure by causing pain and death.  I pray for your soul
F.D.R..  Perhaps the creator will understand and forgive your
ignorance of demons seeing as how you come from a world without them
or at least you don't have knowledge of them.

You give examples of humans that appear good but then show their true
evil colors.  It is quite possible for some humans to be evil.  It is
impossible for demons to be good although they are known to trick
humans into thinking so in order to meet their ends.  Have your
advisors research demons, have them research my world.  Hopefully you
can overcome your egocentrism and realize the error of your alliance
with Balthazar.  Demons are demons.  I would never condone the
extermination of a human society but Balthazar leads a nation of demon
spawn and yes, I do feel they need to be exterminated.

Winter is coming,
Jon Snow


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PE-QS-Diplo [QS-Independents]: Ask Bob 1st about Out-of-Game
Date:Fri, 29 Aug 2003 23:34:56 +0000

Moderator Comments:

Everyone (but especially Jon Snow and F.D.R.) - Out-of-game messages
are violations of the Code of Conduct.  Please discuss any out-of-game
messages with me BEFORE you send them to everyone.  In many cases I am
willing to issue equivalent comments as Moderator (and that way I
don't have to inflict penalties).

Both Snow and F.D.R. have valid points -- the game is more fun if
Leaders flesh out their characters and take the roleplaying to a
higher level -- but less fun if they attempt to define others'
characters for them.  However, if a particular character's
self-definition is different from that which would be commonly
assumed, it is probably up to the character involved to make clear who
they really are.  Thus, as Moderator I'd expect a hobbit or elf to be
a benign character unless proven otherwise, a historical figure to be
true to his historical identity except as noted otherwise, but a ghost
who really wants to be friendly has more explaining to do.  However,
I'm not playing -- it's up to each of you to decide how you will treat
Leaders of a different type/species/persuasion.

I WOULD like to ask for a bit more politeness in the messages,
however.  At it's best, Power's Edge is a fun strategy game, and it
should not be turned into a chat-room flamewar (at least not often!).

-- Bob